Note: This post commences a series of interviews with FM partners on our site. My first victim is Casey Jones, who has become a good friend in this industry. I got to know him as the tech strategy wizard at the Interpublic Group, a very large advertising agency which handles many important clients, including Microsoft. I’ve really enjoyed his take on the marketing world, and a month or two ago he agreed to do an interview. Little did either of us know he’d be changing jobs right in the middle of our interview, and moving to Dell – which thanks to FM author Jeff Jarvis and others found itself smack in the middle of a major conversational media kerfulffle. Casey is now charged with helping take Dell marketing in a new direction. Oddly, that move happened just as I was asking Casey about Dell in the interview. Was it a coincidence? Read on.

Here’s that interview, as it happened:

How might advertisers and their agencies – who are used to creating one size fits all campaigns – be effective in a more and more specialized media market?

The advertising/marcom industry is fond of the phrase “the Big Idea.” One of our icons, Donny Deutsch, has launched a talk show by the same name. The problem is with the definition of big idea. The traditional definition is “a big creative idea.” Something that punches through the clutter, is talked about, creates “buzz” and appeals to the target audience in a highly compelling way. That was more effective when the audiences were homogeneous. Former generations of teens and adults tended to dress alike, think alike . . . and consume the same media. Our world, with vastly different psychographic segments even within very narrowly defined demographic groups, most strongly responds to ideas that are relevant to them. And in this case “them” is a large group of consumer who don’t look at all alike. A “big idea” in this era creates demand across an extremely broad range of audience segments. A much tougher assignment. It means that the creative has to be more flexible, with many more executions and it absolutely must translate across the diverse media.

Can you give us a few examples that you’ve seen recently?



Geico, Mini (Cooper) Xbox and Oracle all come to mind. Every single one of these brands takes a unique and ownable space and pushes hundreds of executions across a broad range of communications channels. I’ve seen Oracle spots that cost less than $30 thousand to produce. Larry Ellison and Grey creative director Dave Tutin used to write copy in Larry’s office with an art director punching out ad after ad next to them. Was it “creative?” Why ask? Everything Larry had to say was relevant as hell to someone, and the ads were seen and read by CXOs. Geico creates dozens of low-cost executions that don’t ask the question “will this appeal to everyone in my target audience?” but rather “will this powerfully appeal to someone within my target audience?” Xbox isn’t a platform for any one kind of game. Their software gaming ads are as diverse as the kinds of gamers in the world. MasterCard’s Priceless campaign is another example. It’s ubiquitous. It’s everywhere Visa wishes it could be. Cartoonists, consumers and graffiti artists adding momentum to the idea. Mini’s website is like cable television–there is something unique there for every kind of viewer. I’ve never seen anything in any “media” form from Mini that I didn’t enjoy.

What do you think is the best job in marketing these days, and conversely, the worst?



The best job in marketing probably belongs to Steve Jobs. He hasn’t just integrated all marketing disciplines into a single machine; he’s married it to product development. In a sense, he didn’t really do this; it simply has never been done any other way at Apple on his watch. Everything Apple does that is customer facing communicates the brand value proposition. In the soloed, internally competitive world of most marketing departments and their agency “partners,” they present a multiple personality, fractured facade to their customers and constituents. If CEO-who- gets-marketing is out of the considered set, then I’d have to say a digitally savvy CMO who is trusted by his or her CEO and fully empowered to do his or her job. If you’re in marketing, you have no vision, you can’t handle change or you think the only metric for success is making your boss or client happy, you’re job sucks no matter what your role or title.

I love the idea of integrating marketing with product development. I’ve proposed this idea to marketers several times: re-allocate some of your best customer service reps to a campaign for a new product which asks, in the banners, “How can we help you (understand our new product, install our new product, leverage our service, etc.”) Invite the audience into a conversation with the brand, one that adds value to the audience and, ultimately, to the brand. The questions and answers become part of a database live on the web, a resource for all users of the product, and also, selected Q&As become streaming content in the campaign itself. Do you think this is an idea that is simply too scary for brands to execute – talking in real time with customers inside a campaign?

It isn’t a scary idea at all! It’s simply not executable within any “normal” corporation where the legacy structure has all these functions divided into different and conflicting camps. It requires systemic change at the very top of the org by a very empowered CEO who is willing to re-write everyone’s’ job description.

Jesus. That sounds scary to any major brand, no? What brands do you think CAN do this? Dell comes to mind, given that the founder just came back and the company seems to have taken recent criticism to heart…



Dell could, with (new Dell CMO Mark) Jarvis there they have a chance. I know he gets it. Iomega nailed it years ago. It is vastly easier for smaller companies. Samsung would be a good bet. And I wouldn’t count out HP with Hurd and Bradley.

**Note – this is where Casey took the Dell job….**

Well, I guess he must be listening – you’ve joined the company! Now that you are there…. why did you decide to take the job?



Whoa. Quite the extraordinary chain of events between questions in this interview. At the beginning of April, I couldn’t have imagined moving to Dell. I was just impressed that Michael had hired Jarvis. After some long talks with Mark and one interview, I accepted the job, had to be “walked” out of McCann due to their contract with HP (no hard feelings at all on either side) and now I’m “a client.” Sorry for the interview delay, John. I’ve been a bit pre-occupied.

Let me restate the answer to my last question before addressing this one. Yes. Dell comes to mind. In fact, if Dell doesn’t set a new standard for integrated marketing communications then I’ll have failed both Jarvis and Michael. My reasons for taking the job was simple. First, I believe in the Dell brand. I’ve been buying and using Dell PCs almost exclusively for years, two as gifts for my father and father-in-law. Easy to market a product you believe in.

Professionally, I believe the marketing communications industry must evolve. I believe that Agencies are willing, but won’t build a new model, or even set themselves to the task of seriously designing one unless corporations, especially large ones, insist. I plan to insist and made a very fast decision to go to Dell because Michael and Mark have assured me that I have their support in doing so.

Thanks Casey. Good luck in your new role, glad we could break the news here first…